natural treatment for diseases with a weak heart disease

[music plays][no dialogue] >>kelly runyon:veterinarians say heart disease is the number four cause of death in dogs.they say the causes, symptoms, diagnosis and treatment can vary widely.we'll talk about of all those issues on this episode of the paw report with dr. marci kirk.so stay with us. [music plays]production of the paw report is brought to you by...>>rameen karbassioon: dave's decorating center is a proud supporterof the paw report on weiu. dave's decorating center features the mohawksmartstrand silk forever clean carpet.

dave's decorating center, authorized mohawkcolor center, in charleston. okaw vet clinic in tuscola and dr. sally footeremind you to properly take care of your pets, and are happy to help support the paw reporton weiu. okaw vet clinic, located at 140 west salestreet, in downtown tuscola. more information available at okawvetclinic.com.>>kelly runyon: dr. marci kirk joins us for this episode ofthe paw report, and she's brought along her pal charlie to talk about pet heart disease.so thank you so much for joining us. >>dr. marci kirk:oh, thanks for having us! >>kelly runyon:and charlie is just a little dreamboat.

he is so precious.and you said he's 4-years-old. >>dr. marci kirk:yep. >>kelly runyon:and he is a golden doodle. >>dr. marci kirk:mmhmm, yep. >>kelly runyon:he is beautiful. >>dr. marci kirk:oh, thank you. >>kelly runyon:well thank you so much for joining us. as i mentioned, we're talking about pet heartdisease. and before we actually get into the heartdisease topic, we need to kind of understand

a mammal's heart.and it's made up of four different chambers? >>dr. marci kirk:mmhmm, that's correct. yeah, it's in a way very similar to humanhearts. you know, there's four chambers that, youknow, basically the blood comes in, pump it to the lungs to get oxygenated, and then pumpit to the rest of the body. so those chambers kind of work a little bitin a circle. you go to the lungs, come back, and then takeit to the rest of the body once the oxygen's there so you can get oxygen through everythingelse. >>kelly runyon:so, what is heart disease?

i mean specifically in animals, but what isit? >>dr. marci kirk:so, i think heart disease is a lot of things all in one.it's just basically saying there's something wrong with the heart.it's not working at its optimum level, so that you can get oxygen everywhere, whichis necessary for all life. and it just, it can be a lot of differentconditions, that just mean we're not functioning properly.>>kelly runyon: mmhmm.well, how common is heart disease in dogs? do you see a lot of animals come into youroffice with problems?

is it prevalent?>>dr. marci kirk: so, i was just reading something, it's a littledifferent in people. you know, i think they say that heard diseaseis one of the number one, you know, things that kills people.it's not quite that common in animals, but it's something that we definitely look for,because our animals are living longer and longer lives.so, that means that things are going to start happening, where things aren't working sowell. and the heart is one of them that can startto kind of, over time, not be as efficient. and we need to step in and intervene.so, it's not the number one disease, but it's

something we definitely want to search for.>>kelly runyon: it may sound like a strange question, butdo dogs actually have heart attacks? >>dr. marci kirk:you know, they can, but it's not something that we see frequently.it's not, because they can't say oh, you know, i've got chest pain, or anything like that.we don't tend to see it too often. they can go into like an acute crisis, wherethey're either having a really strong arrhythmia, and you know, you can tell they're in distress.but it's definitely not as common as you see in people.>>kelly runyon: mmhmm.is heart disease the same as heart failure?

are they...?>>dr. marci kirk: i would say they're not exactly the same.so, you know, as i said before, heart disease i think, we've got a problem with the heart,you know. but heart failure means that we're reallynot functioning well. there can be other forms of heart diseasethat don't mean the heart is failing. so, there can be a case where you maybe havea tumor, you know, on the heart, and it's not causing heart failure yet, but it couldlead to it. so, there are things that cause heart diseasethat could lead to failure, but failure means we're not pumping blood.we're not, you know, we need to intervene,

because otherwise we're not going to makeit. >>kelly runyon:sure. what are the different signs?you know, if i have a pet, how would i know, what are some of the warning signs, what arethe things that i should look for to see if maybe my dog is experiencing a problem?>>dr. marci kirk: sure, that's a great question.and there are, it's different for cats and dogs.cats are just a whole different scenario. and a lot of times, they won't snow us anysigns at all. so, we'll focus on the dog.and some of the things that you want to look

at is, you know if, so like charlie, he goeson runs with me. you know, we can run three, four miles, andhe's great, doesn't have any problems. and if they used to do that, but now they'regetting worn out a little more quickly, maybe they're only making it a mile or two miles,and they used to go four or five. so an exercise intolerance.even if you're dog isn't that athletic, but they used to walk around the block, and nowthey make it down the driveway and they're like, i just can't make it any further.that's one of the, you know, first things we'll see.you might also notice, you know, well he's really worked up and panting, and excited.but like, when they're relaxed or sleeping,

you know, they breathe very easily, very slowly.if you start noticing there's an increased effort with that, where they're really kindof, oh it looks like i'm noticing that he's breathing more.you know, he's taking bigger breaths, and he's really relaxed; he's not panting, andhe's not excited. that is another thing that we'll see, is achange in their breathing pattern or their rate.they actually make an app on your phone that's free, that you can like, track your dog'sbreathing, their respiration rate when they're sleeping.and that's kind of nice to have so you have a baseline, and then you can kind of workfrom there.

and so, you can track, if they do have heartdisease, you know, that's really valuable for the veterinarian to know what their restingrespiratory rate is so that we can tell if they're struggling more than we thought.>>kelly runyon: what about, elaborating a bit more on thesigns, what about a change in diet, or maybe any signs of weight gain or weight loss?would that have anything...? >>dr. marci kirk:in cats, yes. we will see cats lose weight with some heartdisease, and maybe not have any other signs. and obviously, if you have a pet that hasextra weight, similar to people, that is going to put more of a strain on their heart.it has to work harder to get, you know, the

blood circulating to make sure everythinggoes. it can also raise their blood pressure, whichmeans the heart has to work even harder to go through those vessels.so that means it's working harder, it can tire more quickly.plus, if there's fat around the heart, you know, it's not working as well.>>kelly runyon: are there different types of heart disease?>>dr. marci kirk: mmhmm, yeah.so, i think what we probably see the most common is as pets age, the valves in the heartthat keep the blood from going back and forth, and moving it in a forward direction, it startseither thickening or just not being as efficient

at pumping.so, that's the most common one we see, it's called mitral valve disease.but there are some genetic diseases that some are prone to.so, some of the larger breed dogs are prone to like a, basically it's called dilated cardiomyopathy,where the heart is very, the muscle is very big and loose, and it's just kind of not,you know, your heart pumps like that. and it just kind of doesn't pump, so it'snot efficient. and those big dogs, you know, they need thatheart to be efficient. they've got a lot of body space to work withand cover that they need they need blood to flow through.and that's something they can be born with,

so it's something you want to watch for.definitely screen those large breed dogs. the tricky thing with them is sometimes theywon't have any symptoms, you know. we can listen, every time we take them tothe vet, you know the vet puts the stethoscope on there, you listen to the heart, and youmay not hear any signs of an issue. so that's when we start to screen other ways,which would be like x-rays or an ultrasound of the heart, to see how it's functioning.>>kelly runyon: what are some of the leading causes of heartdisease, particularly in dogs? >>dr. marci kirk:yeah, this is another thing that would be different in people.you know, they say you need to get out there

and exercise and eat right, and everything.that doesn't tend to be the case, where as yes, we want them to stay fit, we don't wantthem to get overweight, but it doesn't seem to minimize their risk for heart disease asthey get older. so, a lot of times, i would say old age isa risk for them. or their genetics, you know, some of thoselarger breeds we talked about. and it used to be in cats, before, you know,we really started regulating the cat food industry, they would be short on taurine,which would cause them to have heart problems. and now it's not really an issue.so, that's probably why we don't see it as often in cats anymore.>>kelly runyon:

mmhmm, we've talked, or you've mentioned differentbreeds. let's talk about the breeds that might haveproblems more so on heart disease than maybe some other breeds.large dogs vs. smaller dogs. >>dr. marci kirk:and it is, we do tend to see the genetic link in the larger breed dogs.that's not saying smaller breeds couldn't have it.but one breed in particular that has something very unique to them is the boxer.they are a large breed, but they can also have a life threatening arrhythmia that theycan have, and it can be controlled. but you definitely, boxers in general shouldbe screened very regularly for any signs of

heart disease.and make sure, if you're getting a puppy from a breeder, make sure that the adult, you know,the parents of them were screened for heart disease.because, it can, it's a pretty serious problem in the boxer realm.the other breeds, you know, dobermans and great danes, you know, you think of thosegiant breeds, yeah. newfoundlands, some of those really big breedsare other ones you just want to be extra careful of.they can have that dilated, you know, heart where it's just a little too big, and doesn'twork as well. >>kelly runyon:mmhmm.

if i'm bringing, let's say charlie is my pet,and i'm bringing charlie into your office just for the routine, you know, vet check-ups,what sort of things do you do for a pet owner? they're maybe not seeing any signs, but youknow, just the routine check. so what, take me through that process.>>dr. marci kirk: sure, well anytime you go to the vet, youknow, they're going to check nose to tail. and that includes putting a stethoscope onthe heart and lungs. and they can have some signs.now, not every dog or cat that has heart failure is going to have a sign that we'll talk about,but they could. and that's how we're going to catch it early.so, we can listen to the different chambers

of the heart, and we're going to listen tothose. and what we're going to listen for is a heartmurmur or any sounds in the lungs that might be something different, you know, where fluidcould be accumulating. so, we'll listen, and if we hear a heart murmur,and it's new, that's going to be something we want to, you know, investigate.we want to make sure the owner's not noticing any exercise intolerance, you know, any coughing,any, you know, just breathing heavy or anything like that.and if they're not, you know, we're still going to talk about, well maybe we need toget some baseline x-rays, see the size and shape of the heart, make sure it all looksokay.

because, there are such a thing as innocentmurmurs. i had a beagle growing up.she had a heart murmur diagnosed at the age of 9, and we just checked it regularly.and it never caused her a problem. she never had any issues with it, but shehad that heart murmur that we just wanted to make sure it didn't develop into...so, she had heart disease, but didn't have heart failure in that case, so.>>kelly runyon: so, i bring charlie in, you do some checks,and you do notice that there's probably or maybe an issue.there's some chest x-rays that are done, and he's been diagnosed with heart disease.what are some of the treatment options?

i'm sure there's a lot out there.and if there are, let's go through some of the list.>>dr. marci kirk: so, it depends on, you know, the type of heartdisease. and one thing we could do to try and narrowit down a little bit is set up a time with a cardiologist, and have an ultrasound ofthe heart done, an echocardiogram. we don't always have to do that, and not everybodycan afford that. so, if that's not an option to really pinpointit, then we'er going to start trying to ease the burden of the heart.so, if we, let's say on the x-ray we say fluid on the lungs, because it's backing up becausethe heart's not pumping the blood like it

should, so fluid's starting to accumulate.that's a lot of times where we start seeing the cough come.adn even if they're not coughing anything up, it feels like there's something on theirlungs they need to get out, and so they're trying to.so, a lot of times we'll start with things like lasix, you know, a diuretic that willpull fluid off the lungs and make them a lot more comfortable.and that's very common in people, it's used too.so, people are usually familiar with lasix, you know, as a treatment.one of the other treatments that we'll use is something that kind of helps lower theblood pressure a little bit, so that those

vessels can loosen up and make it easier forthe heart to pump blood through there. we want to make the burden of the heart'sjob a little easier. and so, that's one thing that we will usecommonly, and that's kind of our first line most of the time.there is a new drug that's out that helps the muscle of the heart contract, so it canbe more efficient. and we'll a lot of times grab that.now, that won't work for every heart condition. and if there is something else going on, we'lluse a different. but if it's just the typical mitral valvedisease that we talked about, those are kind of the first drugs that we go to.now, if it's the boxer arrhythmia, we're going

to do a different medication that will helpkind of regulate the heart's rhythm. >>kelly runyon:you know, it may sound like a silly question, and you know, when we think of heart problemsin humans, open heart surgery is sometimes an option.is there open heart surgery performed on dogs? >>dr. marci kirk:they can, and they can put in, i mean, pace makers, stints, things like that.absolutely. or if there's like a tumor on the heart, sometimesthey will go in and remove that. typically, that's done by a cardiologist and,like a board certified cardiologist and surgeon. it's not something most practitioners willdo, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't

try it.but a lot of times you need special, you know, breathing, ventilation, things like that.there's also a condition in dogs, there's a sac around our heart, and sometimes it canfill with fluid. and that's called pericardial effusion.and that, obviously your heart can't expand then and pump like it needs to because thisfluid's blocking it. and in some of those cases, they can go inthere and make a window into that sac, and then that, you know, the fluid just kind ofdrains, and the body takes over absorbing that and flushing it out.so, they can definitely do open heart surgery. and let's say a puppy's born with a heartdefect.

i've seen it twice done in general practicewhere there was an extra, kind of, it should have gone away, an extra valve on the heartbasically, that should have gone away as normal, but it was kind of restricting the esophagus,and then it's not working as well. and you can go in there and clip that out.it sounds, it sounded much easier than it actually is, but you're going into the heart.>>kelly runyon: can you do that in your office?>>dr. marci kirk: yeah, i mean it can be.it's very risky. you know, you're getting into lungs and thingslike that, and it's a whole intricate system. but it can be done, and both those dogs livedand are doing very well.

so, it's something that not every generalpractitioner will want to do, and if you have the option for referral, that's great.but yeah, they can definitely do surgery on the heart.>>kelly runyon: well, speaking of that, and i know it's themillion dollar question, and all pet owners want to know, what are the survival ratesfor, you know, dogs that are diagnosed? every heart is different, every dog is different,and every body's different, just like humans. >>dr. marci kirk:that's perfect. >>kelly runyon:that's probably the first question that you're asked when somebody's expecting...>>dr. marci kirk:

and that's exactly our answer, too.you know, we don't know. but we do know things we can do to help them.there's not, because it's not the number one disease in animals, you know, that causesdeath or anything. so, there are some studies, but i don't haveany, you know, survival rates. but i can tell you, you know, if we're veryproactive about it, and we do regular checks, you know, they can live a long time with it.now, with the arrhythmias, that's a little bit harder.they, you know, might need, they'll probably have a shortened life expectancy comparedto another dog that doesn't have any heart disease.but some of these pets, you know, like i said,

they're a lot older when they get heart disease.and if we get them on proper medication, sometimes changing their diet to a lower sodium, youknow, diet, can help. they can live a long time.>>kelly runyon: and you know, that's what a pet owner wantsto hear, you know, because they're part of their family.and they don't want to lose them. how do you know if the medicine regime thatyou're talking about is working? so, we'll use charlie again.i bring in charlie, he's been diagnosed. there is a very strict regimen of medicinethat he needs to be on, diet. how do we know if it's working?>>dr. marci kirk:

so, that's going to come back to the thingsthat we were noticing. so, if you noticed a problem, you know, theexercise intolerance, the coughing, or the just kind of feeling blah, you should seethat stop. you should see an improvement in that.and that's another place where that app will come in handy, or monitoring their respiratoryrates. because, we want to know what they're doingat resting. if they're back to a normal, what we wouldconsider, there's kind of some thresholds that we, you know, let's say 15 respirationsa minute whenever they're sleeping is normal. you know, if they have heart disease, maybewe're going to accept 15 to 20.

if we're seeing over that per minute, thenwe're going to start maybe tweaking the medication a little bit more precisely to what they need.and in some cases, maybe they're feeling better, we can wean them down to a lower dose, andthen just bump them up if they start having problems.so, i think it really comes down to the symptoms you're noticing at home.and if they weren't noticing any symptoms, they may notice all of a sudden, maybe theywere so gradual in onset, now we're on medication, wow he's really feeling better, you know.so, if they start noticing that slip back to, maybe he was sleeping a little bit more,things like that. and i know that's hard because older dogstend to sleep more.

but you should notice that their sleep ismore restful. you know, they're not having trouble breathingor anything like that. and maybe you didn't notice it before, butnow that it's not there, it's, you know, you notice it would come back.>>kelly runyon: but you shouldn't rush.you know, all pet owners, i've been there. i had a dog, i had a yellow lab that had anenlarged heart, and you just so desperately want them to get better and to feel better.and i think probably the one thing that i did, that i shouldn't have done, is reallyrush back, her name was winnie, getting winnie back out in the yard running and playing,and going for those long walks.

because, that's what, we just want them todo that. >>dr. marci kirk:you want them to be back to themselves. >>kelly runyon:but that's not a good idea. >>dr. marci kirk:right, so you know, you've got to remember the heart's a muscle.so, think about if you injured any other muscle or strained a tendon or ligament, or somethinglike that, you're going to have to rest. and what they're going to prescribe to youthen is to go slowly back into your exercise. so, a mile.let's say they used to go a mile, you know. and when they got diagnosed, they could onlygo a half mile.

well, you're going to start doing maybe aquarter of a mile, maybe a time or two a day, and then slowly work up to what you used tobe. but you've got to make sure that muscle istaken care of. and it's just like anything else, you know,you strain anything else, and that's going to be really important to rest and work yourway back up to where you were. >>kelly runyon:let it heal. you mentioned when you were a little girlthat you had a beagle that had a heart murmur. what is a heart murmur, and you mentionedin your case that it was an okay thing to have, but what is it, and how serious is it?>>dr. marci kirk:

and that's a really good question, becauseit can be serious and it can, like in the case of my beagle, it can be just somethingwe need to watch that could eventually cause a problem.so, a heart murmur again, we talked about the blood and the heart, you know, has certainareas it's going to go, you know we always want to move forward.it's either going to move to the lungs or move to the rest of the body.whenever their valves don't close tightly, for whatever reason, maybe the valve isn'tworking well, maybe it became thickened and can't close as well, blood starts to swirlback and forth, back and forth. and so, when we listen with a stethoscope,we start to kind of hear this [makes blowing

sound], kind of washing machine that kindof, you know, hear it. and we should normally just hear that ba-bum,ba-bum. you know, if you hear that extra thing inthere, we're starting to notice that there's something not right.and again, if they're not having symptoms at home, we take x-rays, it measures right,we might just watch it. but at least we have a baseline.but if we start noticing they're having symptoms, maybe on the x-rays the heart looks a littleenlarged or rounded, or anything like that, then we might start medication.one other thing that we kind of didn't touch on, and that we should talk about, heart diseasecan also be caused by heart worm disease.

so, that's something that, you know, yearlythey might do a heart worm check, but it's very important especially in this area tokeep them on heart worm preventatives. because, the heart, the worms live in theheart and lungs, and obviously they can cause damage.so, even if you cure, let's say they go through the treatment, they're cured, they could havealready caused damage that could lead to heart failure later in life.so, that's something that you can prevent, too.>>kelly runyon: well, and that leads me to my next question,is can you prevent heart disease, and what can pet owners do to make sure they're petsstay healthy?

>>dr. marci kirk:sure. well, i don't think there's any one thingthat can prevent it. like in people, they tell you to go exerciseand, you know, eat right. and it doesn't seem to be the case in ourdogs yet. now, in 10 years we may be having a differentconversation. maybe our pets our living even longer.but definitely keeping them, you know, at a lean body where they are not overweightmakes it so their heart doesn't have to work as hard.but it seems like genetics and age are the biggest factors, and we can't really do anythingabout that.

so, it's mostly just kind of knowing what'snormal for your pet really helps the veterinarian, you know, a lot.and if you start noticing any changes, that's going to be really beneficial to tell themso they can really pinpoint on their quality of life and what works for them.>>kelly runyon: and we mentioned food and diet.you know, that is something. when you go to a store to, you know, try todecide what to feed your animal, you're just overwhelmed with all the different types andkinds, and lamb and rice, and you know, all the different...is that, should you keep an eye out for that, i mean as far as...?>>dr. marci kirk:

well, i don't think there's anything in thediet. i mean, when they're diagnosed with heartdisease, we are going to recommend a lower sodium, but i don't think there's any foodthat's going to cause. >>kelly runyon:there's not a magic food out there that, you take this and you're not going to have heartdisease. >>dr. marci kirk:yeah, i don't think there, as long as you're sticking with a good name-brand food, mostof the time, and feeding, you know appropriate amounts, you're doing about everything youcan to minimize their risk. because, most of the time, like i said, it'sgoing to be as they age or if they had a genetic

predisposition, you know, some of the largerbreeds or things like that. >>kelly runyon:let's talk just a little bit, as we wrap up our discussion, about cats.because, is the treatment the same for cats? >>dr. marci kirk:cats, i mean i feel like you could fill a whole show with how different cats are fromdogs, and that makes sense. but the heart disease that cats get is reallytricky. the most common one they get is where theheart gets so, so thick, it can't get blood or pump efficiently at all.and that's called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. so, it's kind of the different, complete oppositeof dilated cardiomyopathy.

so, with them, a lot of times you might noticethat they breathe differently, you might notice some weight loss.we might get lucky and hear a murmur. but a lot of times, it's kind of, if we startseeing any of those symptoms, we definitely want to take x-rays, we definitely want tothink about, you know, an echocardiogram, which is the ultrasound of the heart.they can be on some of the same medications. i had a cat that i treated very, very well.it was a young cat that had the hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, where the wall was just sothickened. and it did great on one of those medicationsthat kind of dilated the vessels, so it was easier for the heart to work.and so, they can, they have the same medications

available.it just is kind of up to the cat, i think, sometimes if it's going to work or not becausethey are very, it's very difficult. and sometimes with cats, they're trained,they just want to instinctively hide things from us, so a lot of times we may not catchit until it's too late. >>kelly runyon:and the important thing is, just as we take our dogs to the vet for routine yearly check-ups,it's very important to take your cat, even though you don't see any signs of problems.>>dr. marci kirk: that's exactly right.and what makes them tricky, too is they seem to be more likely to have innocent murmurs.so, we might hear that, and it might be nothing,

but it's something we'll want to watch forsure. and checking them yearly, every six months,things like that, is very important. even if they stay inside only, there's a lotof things we can screen for and bring them in.>>kelly runyon: alright.well, dr. kirk and charlie, you've been well-behaved today, probably because you've got a littlepocket full of treats. >>dr. marci kirk:got to bribe them. >>kelly runyon:that's right. well, thank you so much.this was fun and very interesting, and i actually

learned a few things.so, thank you for joining us. >>dr. marci kirk:well, thank you. >>kelly runyon:alright, and thank you for joining us for this episode of the paw report.did you know full episodes of the paw report are on youtube?they can be accessed at youtube.com/weiutv, then just go to the paw report playlist andselect the episode you want to see. more information about the show is also available24/7 on our website, at weiu.net under the television tab.production of the paw report is brought to okaw vet clinic, located at 140 west salestreet in downtown tuscola.

more information available at okawvetclinic.com.dave's decorating center is a proud supporter of the paw report on weiu.dave's decorating center features the mohawk smartstrand silk forever clean carpet.dave's decorating center, authorized mohawk color center, in charleston.[music plays]